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 Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited

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Valkoor
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PostSubject: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:52 pm

Welcome one, welcome all to Valkoor's shitty ra-... I mean list. Yeah that. >.>

Note that there are a few rules for this. Cards with imminent erratas, namely DMoC and CED, are not included on this list. Second of all, all cards on this list were selected due to their likely minimal impact on the state of the game, so basically the main criteria is how much of a basic fucking irrelevant ass nigga you are.

~~~

To the list!

10.) Harpie's Feather Duster/Heavy Storm: Whoo, controversy time! First of all, to explain this place being two cards, it's because some people think Harpie's and some say Heavy. Heavy promotes more careful setting by both players, while Harpie's prevents potential pendulum abuse. That being said, as for why ONE of the two should come back. The cards promote more careful gameplay when setting spells and traps. In addition, despite what people think, this does not kill control decks. Look at Evilswarm, Dino-Rabbit, and Fire Fist; all top contenders while Heavy Storm was legal (albeit during different formats).While this may be the most controversial card(s) on the list, I genuinely believe one can and should come back.

9.) Time Seal: Excuse me if I'm forgetting why this was banned, but to my knowledge it was shit Yata lock back-up. Yata lock is dead and this card is basically a bad trade-off; you sacrifice a card to stop your opponent from getting a card. It can come back.

8.) Tribe-Infecting Virus: We have double Dark Hole and Raigeki, why is this banned? Honestly its cost only benefits two decks, Fabled and Mermail. Any other deck its too costly, as your normal summon and an additional card have been wasted. Fableds would never run this, however, and even Mermail players have said in the past the card seems to slow to run.

7.) Sangan: Sangan is long past its prime. With TGU limited and the card becoming much slower in many decks, it's lost a lot of its former luster. BA would never run his, and Dino-Rabbit is dead as a deck. That eliminates the two main decks that would have run this, and the rest of the decks that would just be tier 3 or rogue decks with added consistency.

6.) Destiny HERO - Disk Commander: Disk Commander is irrelevant as fuck. While it may seem crazy at first, it's either make a deck based around it or splash in Kinka-Byo, which honestly adds more inconsistencies than those draws can fix. The only thing this would really help is maybe Piper Chaos, and hell, who gives a shit?

5.) Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier: Trishula has lost a lot of power since its glory days. Many ways of abusing it have become inconsistent, and the cost to make this card is now too great for most synchro decks to consider just dropping it without a second thought. While it may be better than Blue Trish when actually summoned, the cards needed to summon it are much more scarce and limited, making this balanced enough o return to 1.

4.) Solemn Judgment: This card is the most fair and balance card to have ever come out in the game of Yu-Gi-Oh. Honestly. People might get salty over losing to it, but people ge salty anyway. The real reason this card is so fair is that a poor use of it will result in an imminent loss, as you used half your LP to negate something of minimal relevance. A skilled or proper use of the card results in a significant tempo swing. Mind you, a anything more than 1 the consistent negates become silly, but it's fine at 1.

3.) Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity: This card. Is irrelevant. Honestly Wind-Ups haven't done anything in ages, and this really wouldn't change that. Wind-Ups need so much more to be even a little relevant, and this would be a good start.

2.) Elemental HERO Stratos: #FREEMAHNIGGASTRATOS
... more seriously, Stratos is a card that seemed to be the scapegoat hit of a much bigger problem .All Stratos ever did was add consistency to the deck, which realistically the deck had anyway. With the loss of Stratos, most every build outside of DarkLaw.dek become much less powerful. Stratos never really caused OTK's or massive plays; realistically, the true perpetrator was AHL. That being said, Stratos to 1.

1.) Thousand-Eyes Restrict: Okay. TER. This was banned during Goat Conrol format, when it was widly seen as one of the most annoying multi-eyes bitched out there. Now, though? With Metamorphosis banned and the materials sucking, all this achieves is a quick shitty 101 effect with Instant Fusion. Honestly the card would achieve nothing at this point, and this card could come back to 3 for all I care.

~~~

K guys I made a list. I iz proud. I iz gone nao. Leave arguments or potential changes below.

KBaiLuvU~<3
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:22 pm

I say unlimit zenmaity and ban hunter. Regarding disk commander though... no.. let's not =/ Solemn judgment too... so many games won and lost just because one guy opens that card and the other doesn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:00 pm

@lever10 wrote:
I say unlimit zenmaity and ban hunter. Regarding disk commander though... no.. let's not =/ Solemn judgment too... so many games won and lost just because one guy opens that card and the other doesn't.

I would love to hear some way Disk Commander could be abused with consistent results, considering most the cards that would normally be able to abuse it are banned or irrelevant outside of pathetically low tier decks. Quote me a good play with Disk Commander that would be consistent and relevant and we may have something.

As for Solemn Judgment, that's the thing. It's a fair card. It's honestly one of the most fair cards in the game. Sure, you may win here and there by a saccy Judgment, but that's the same with most limited cards. Judgment stands out in particular due to the stand-alone skill of the card, separating it from a lot of other "saccy" cards on the banlist.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:34 pm

#FREEMANIGGASTRATOS

and i rather heavy over harpie's cause yeah

oh yeah and time seal should stay banned cause lets say your opponent has a board and you are looking for an out on some shiet skipping your draw phase can basically make you waste a turn in some cases D: and its not a minus or a plus since your opp wont end up drawing that "+1"

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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:33 am

@Valkoor wrote:
@lever10 wrote:
I say unlimit zenmaity and ban hunter. Regarding disk commander though... no.. let's not =/ Solemn judgment too... so many games won and lost just because one guy opens that card and the other doesn't.

I would love to hear some way Disk Commander could be abused with consistent results, considering most the cards that would normally be able to abuse it are banned or irrelevant outside of pathetically low tier decks. Quote me a good play with Disk Commander that would be consistent and relevant and we may have something.

As for Solemn Judgment, that's the thing. It's a fair card. It's honestly one of the most fair cards in the game. Sure, you may win here and there by a saccy Judgment, but that's the same with most limited cards. Judgment stands out in particular due to the stand-alone skill of the card, separating it from a lot of other "saccy" cards on the banlist.

It is hard to say one specific combo that we would be scared of. This was originally banned in a time where the format was much slower. My main beef with this card is the simple potential it has. Tellarknights proved decks can function really well off of call of the haunted and oasis. Tellarknights would not run this card disk because they aren't centered around the graveyard. Konami loves making archtypes that are centered around the graveyard, despite it constantly proving to be super strong in the meta. There is bound to be another future deck that dumps things to the grave very quickly and likes to bounce back the cards with generic reborn effects such as call of the haunted, and this card turns each and every one of those into a pot of greed. Not only is it a pot of greed, but it draws you into more pot of greeds. I understand why it isn't broken right now, but it has an inherently broken effect (pot of greed) that is easy to trigger and that is what makes it too risky to bring back. Think of it like super rejuvenation. It has absolutely no relevance in the current meta and wouldn't be played, but everyone knows that it shouldn't be brought back because it is just far too likely for another deck like dragon rulers to come along and absolutely break the card once again. It is the same situation. Not only that, but it is incredibly easy to search out, making it rather consistent. Plus exodia, nobody wants to see ANOTHER bizarre-o exodia variant.

Regarding solemn judgment... did you just say it was a fair card BECAUSE people can easily auto win by opening this card? How does that make any sense? I will give you that it takes some skill to know what to flip it against, but honestly that skill is very limited. It doesn't take much to just know to flip it on the one card your opponent needs to go through in order to do anything, whether it be their only monster or their only backrow. Let's not forget the opponent though! Just because it takes some skill to use it on the right card SOMETIMES, it is basically impossible to play around or predict, making it so the potentially more skillful player loses way more than they should if they simply open judgment less than the other guy. Solemn warning is a bit more fair, but in all honesty I think the game would be a bit more fair if solemn was banned and bottomless was at 2. It is impossible to play around the solemns, but you sure as hell can play around bottomless.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:08 am

Solemn provides en escape to cards that otherwise would be impossible to get rid of. Let's say you summon Cyber Dragon Infinity or Shooting Quasar Dragon. Now, you can't get over them unless you have two separate effects, but that will be way too minus to recover from, not to mention rare. Using Solemn Warning on a card like that is the best way to possibly deal with that type of thing, plus with a 2000LP cost, you're limited to when you can use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:24 pm

Ten Kodori wrote:
Solemn provides en escape to cards that otherwise would be impossible to get rid of. Let's say you summon Cyber Dragon Infinity or Shooting Quasar Dragon. Now, you can't get over them unless you have two separate effects, but that will be way too minus to recover from, not to mention rare. Using Solemn Warning on a card like that is the best way to possibly deal with that type of thing, plus with a 2000LP cost, you're limited to when you can use it.

I feel like cyber infinity is extremely overrated. I have never once sat across one and though "I can't get over that." Every time I saw it I has the ability to get over it, it just took a bit more thought. Cyber Infinity+Dark Law is another story, but that is a pretty difficult feet to pull off and requires a lot more resources.

That being said, let's say your opponent drops a cyber infinity and used 3 cards to make it and you use a solemn on it. Congratulations, you just auto won because you opened solemn. Now imagine you use 3 card to make a cyber infinity and your opponent doesn't have a solemn. They can't do anything about it simply because you had the solemn while they did not.

Another thing I want to point out is how valkoor and many others have said the solemn cards are skillful because of their timing. It is really easy to time it well, just hit the exciton or 101 or something like that and call it a day. When you have bottomless or torrential, their timing is crucial and you are often times much more inclined to think about what plays your opponent is going to make and stop them preemptively. It is much more difficult to consider what your opponent could be doing and stop than it is to say "oh, that's the play you were making this whole time? Yea I am stopping now, solemn." Because it is easier to play makes the solemns less skillful, and I stand by my opinion that the game would be better if solemn was banned and bottomless was at 2 or 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:47 pm

Sure, the timing is easy; the reason it's so fair is that it's able to be played around surprisingly well, considering it can negate ANYTHING, and that a baited Solemn Judgment can lose the opponent the game. Let's say you attempt to Book of Moon their boss, they Judgment it because they want to keep it live through something; they could have payed anywhere between 100 and 4000 LP, potentially resulting in an easy OTK. In a similar sense, Solemn Judgmenting their one play can win you the game. It's not that the timing is skillful, it's that a poor timing can lose you the game to begin with. Also, in response to your argument on Cyber Infinity:

Veiler
Compuls
BTH
Vanity
Black Horn of Heaven
Breaktrhough Skill
Fiendish Chain
Thunder King

Literally all of these stop the Infinity play. You had one card, so the opponent loses? No. That's never how the game worked. A deck with one linear play and no potential back up is likely to lose anyway, because the game has too many ways to counter plays. Sure, you could also give the argument that Judgment is broken because it negates spells too, but to be honest, we need more cards in the game that negate spells and traps anyway; we really don't have any good ones, except maybe Wiretap (but that doesn't stop spells).

As for Disk Commander, Tellars would never run it. I actually tested them immediately after, first standard with Disk Commander and then with a deck dedicated to the Commander draws. Guess what? Altair+Deneb gives you a plus 2 as well, with potentially a plus 3 cus then you can xyz. It contributes nothing to their strategy whatsoever. And why would you not unban it because of some theoretical deck that could abuse it in the future? The point of the banlist is to hit what is relevant AT THE TIME. Super Rejuv become relevant and got hit as a result. Similarly, Disk Commander will get hit if it ever becomes relevant again; but for now, it's completely useless.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:59 am

@Valkoor wrote:
Sure, the timing is easy; the reason it's so fair is that it's able to be played around surprisingly well, considering it can negate ANYTHING, and that a baited Solemn Judgment can lose the opponent the game. Let's say you attempt to Book of Moon their boss, they Judgment it because they want to keep it live through something; they could have payed anywhere between 100 and 4000 LP, potentially resulting in an easy OTK. In a similar sense, Solemn Judgmenting their one play can win you the game. It's not that the timing is skillful, it's that a poor timing can lose you the game to begin with. Also, in response to your argument on Cyber Infinity:

Veiler
Compuls
BTH
Vanity
Black Horn of Heaven
Breaktrhough Skill
Fiendish Chain
Thunder King

Literally all of these stop the Infinity play. You had one card, so the opponent loses? No. That's never how the game worked. A deck with one linear play and no potential back up is likely to lose anyway, because the game has too many ways to counter plays. Sure, you could also give the argument that Judgment is broken because it negates spells too, but to be honest, we need more cards in the game that negate spells and traps anyway; we really don't have any good ones, except maybe Wiretap (but that doesn't stop spells).

As for Disk Commander, Tellars would never run it. I actually tested them immediately after, first standard with Disk Commander and then with a deck dedicated to the Commander draws. Guess what? Altair+Deneb gives you a plus 2 as well, with potentially a plus 3 cus then you can xyz. It contributes nothing to their strategy whatsoever. And why would you not unban it because of some theoretical deck that could abuse it in the future? The point of the banlist is to hit what is relevant AT THE TIME. Super Rejuv become relevant and got hit as a result. Similarly, Disk Commander will get hit if it ever becomes relevant again; but for now, it's completely useless.

You can time spellbook of judgment wrong believe it or not, and that shit is still broken and banned for a very good reason. I don't see how bad players make a card balanced. It is what the good players do that utilize these cards well that make a card unbalanced. A bad player can misuse cold wave, but that does not make it balanced because good players will know when to use it and when its bad. The same goes for cyberstein, sure a bad player can use it and just go for it when the opponent has 4 backrow, but how does that make it balanced when the good player will use effectively to steal several wins?

I don't understand why you brought up the whole infinity thing... I said infinity was overrated and usually isn't a problem unless its paired up with 3 backrow or dark law.

I like how you say a deck with one linear play is bad. That is every FTK that topped ever, bujins (to a lesser extent), and a lot of things you wouldn't normally think of. You solemn warning an ophion and the lswarm player only has backrow now. What happens now? They have infestation pandemic and they can't play around a solemn because they lose if they don't establish a board. Any sane yugioh player would make the ophion only to get solemned. At that point they simply died because their opponent had a solemn and the evilswarm player can do nothing but set backrow and draw into a dead monster before hitting what they really need when its already too late. Even if you have more than one play in your deck, there is a decent chance you only open one. Say you are playing plant synchrons. That's cool, you start off by discarding spore for quickdraw and you have junk warrior and doppel in your hand. All you need is for that junk warrior to go through and, oops, solemn. You couldn't even lance it. Now you are stuck with a quickdraw that is going to get run over very easily, effectively netting you a -2 to your opponent. You can also solemn judgment the synchro that comes out and you get an instant +1 and stop their play simultaneously. +1s are huge, but the added bonus of stopping your opponent's play is too much. This is just solemns in general, judgment just has a hell of a lot more versatility. The card was banned for a reason. People constantly talk about how broken it was, especially at 3, FOR A REASON.

Back on that whole "You had one card, so the opponent loses? No. That's never how the game worked" comment, you like spellbooks correct? How many hands have you had where it was something along the lines of master, tower, blueboy, wisdom, power, bottomless. There was probably a decent amount where all you needed was that one blueboy to go through and your hand just because live and powerful, but if it didn't go through, your whole hand crumbled to relying on 1-3 backrow that won't do much. If your blue boy gets solemned and you don't see another one or secrets or whatever else you use to search for the next 3 or 4 turns, then you lost. Why? Because your opponent had that one card: solemn.

Now onto disk commander, this is where I question if you read my whole post. I told you tellars wouldn't run it, it was just a current example everyone here can relate to that proves meta decks can and often do run generic monster revival. Going beyond that to my super rejuv comment... Correct me if I am wrong, but you don't work for Konami on establishing banlists. You can't say the point of the banlists is to ban what is relevant at the time is the whole point of it. They banned morphing jar #2 before it became relevant! How long did they keep bestiari at 1? Glad beasts weren't relevant for a long ass time, but that didn't make konami bring it to 3 for, what, a decade? You don't decide what the banlist is for, Konami does.

Going on to what you said after that, saying if disk commander became relevant they would hit it... come on... do you want super rejuv back too so that a deck can draw 6 cards off of it again? I don't know if you were there for that, but it was a pretty bland format, and super rejuv is one of the reasons for that. I for one thing that card should stay banned for a damn long time simply because it has the potential to break the meta into a tier 0 meta, and those are just kind of lame.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 Banned Cards That Should be Limited   Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:49 pm

Fiber jar isn't a broken card that one should be at 3 along with cyberstein great cards and not op in anyway.
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